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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:45 am 
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Agree with deanne !!!


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:36 am 
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deanne wrote:
The third gender, as it occurs historically, categorized trans and intersexed people. Medical transition is a very recent phenomenon. The extent of bodily modification of earlier civilizations was usually castration. Being that trans-people could never really expect to transition into their target gender, like we do today, they were thus delineated as part of the "third gender." This still goes on today. For example, the hijra of India are a society of trans-people that typically do not complete transition beyond castration. For most, it is probably a matter of availability of resources. However, there are some hijra who actually choose not to fully transition. There are other trans-people around the world that also choose to transition to varying degrees of completeness, because they identify as distinctly trans.

Nature doesn't always hand us a perfectly male or female body. Likewise, some people do not identify as perfectly male or female. At the end of the day, it's all just junk and brains!


I agree with your historical assessment.
But I've been reading quite a bit about modern Hijra, and there does seem to be a distinction made between being trans and being a third sex.
Many Hijra do not undergo castration (or any other bodily feminization) by choice, not just out of lack of resources.
Although they dress in female clothes and use female pronouns, many of them do not consider themselves women, but rather something completely outside of the standard gender binary.
As stated by Hijra Mona Ahmed to author Dayanita Singh, "I am the third sex, not a man trying to be a woman. It is your society's problem that you only recognize two sexes."

On the other hand, there are those who identify as "gender queer" and/or androgynes.
They prefer gender neutral pronouns (like "they", as opposed to "he" or "she"), and think of themselves as genderless.

There are so many categories these days, it makes my brain hurt. :lol:

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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:16 am 
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Thank you for sharing that quote, Gabrielle. I really enjoy it! I also appreciate knowing a little more about the hijra. I realize I probably overgeneralized about history, too. It's not as though there are many records of transgendered people before the 20th century. Regardless, I am certainly not an expert on either subject.

You know, gender identity, in all its myriad forms, is probably actually quite simple. It seems that people lack trust in their ability to formulate their own identities, and so everyone needs to box everything up neat and tidy to be concrete and immediately recognizable. This is where complication arises, no doubt. However, any thoughtful, multi-dimensional human being, no matter what gender identity, will tell you that they are much more than what's between the legs, or even between the ears. It seems, with this obsession for knowing what everyone "is," people have yet to evolve from sniffing each other's crotch.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:54 pm 
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deanne wrote:
However, any thoughtful, multi-dimensional human being, no matter what gender identity, will tell you that they are much more than what's between the legs, or even between the ears. It seems, with this obsession for knowing what everyone "is," people have yet to evolve from sniffing each other's crotch.


That's a very good point Deanne.
It is sad that we can't just let each other "be" without the need to apply categories, labels and other restrictive parameters.

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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss


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